Career Change Success: Insights from CliftonStrengths Coach Jennifer Doyle Vancil! S4E26

Do you want to find a fulfilling career that utilizes your strengths? Are you tired of feeling stuck in a job that doesn't bring you joy or pay you what you are worth? Look no further! Our guest, Jennifer Doyle Vancil, will share the solution to smoothly navigating career transitions and discovering your true potential. By utilizing her expertise, you can achieve the outcome of finding a career that aligns with your strengths and passions. Join us and learn how to make the most of your career transition journey.

"What would happen if we thought about what was right with people instead of fixating on what's wrong with them?" - Don Clifton (As mentioned by Jennifer Doyle Vancil)

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Uncover the secret to finding and embracing your true calling in life.
• Learn how to amplify your career success by focusing on your unique strengths.
• Master the art of smoothly navigating through career transitions and reinventions.
• Discover the power of collaboration and building partnerships for meaningful professional growth.
• Gain valuable insights on the impact of gratitude in elevating your personal growth journey.

Discovering and utilizing strengths for fulfilling career transitions.
Career transitions can often be challenging and daunting, making it essential for individuals to be aware of and leverage their strengths. Jennifer Doyle Vancil, during the podcast, shares her journey of using the CliftonStrengths assessment to recognize her strengths. Her personal experience highlighted how tapping into her strengths, such as ideation and strategic thinking, led to a career change that allowed her to flourish. She urged that focusing on one's strengths can lead to greater job satisfaction and prevent feelings of disengagement, eventually contributing to a more gratifying career.

Connect with Jennifer Doyle Vancil:
www.communicatingstrengths.com
www.linkedin.com/in/jennifervancil

Take the Clifton Strengths Assessment using this promo to receive bonus tools to help guide you on your Strengths Journey!  Sheri's Strengths Starter Kit!

Transcript

00:00:00 - Speaker A
You. Welcome back, friends, to the Discovering your Calling podcast. I am your host Sheri Miter, and I am here with my new friend Jennifer Doyle Vancil. Did I say it right?

00:00:13 - Speaker B
Yes.

00:00:14 - Speaker A
Okay. And Jennifer and I are both Clifton strengths coaches, and I'm really excited to have this conversation conversation today, get to know Jennifer a little bit more, but being able to talk about strengths always lights me up. So welcome to the podcast, Jennifer.

00:00:34 - Speaker B
Thank you so much for having me, Sheri.

00:00:36 - Speaker A
Yeah, you're welcome. And if you could just kind of share with the listeners a little bit about who you are. I know you just had your daughter graduate, so a little bit about what's going on in your life, if you want, and what you do today that you do feel like is your calling.

00:00:55 - Speaker B
Thank you so much. Yes. My daughter just graduated. She is my youngest, so I am a mom of two. I also have a college age son, and I think that's relevant because it's been a real target point for my own transition. So I am a strength based career coach, so I work with Clifton strengths like you and how that affects people's careers. So I do that in two ways. I'm a one on one career coach and executive coach, so I work with leaders who want to work more from their strengths within their organization. And I also work with people who are in transition, trying to figure out what kind of job they want to change to or if they know how they can get it through using their strengths. So lot we can talk about there. And then post pandemic, I've been invited more and more to speak in leadership programs and also in company teams to talk about how to make a strength based team so that the workplace they're in is one that they don't want to leave. I realized in my journey as a career coach, especially as a career coach during the pandemic, which is kind of interesting to talk about, so many people were calling me saying, I need to get out. I need to change my job. That I realized post pandemic that I could help companies understand why people were leaving and actually help contribute to potentially them not needing to leave if those workplaces could be better. So that's been a really interesting new development, background wise. I was in higher education for more than 20 years, Sheri Miter Co Alaska and in Colorado State, and I do some contracting with the Sheri Miter Co Tennessee still, and I love higher ed. But my transition was predicated on that target of two kids in college. And the sad reality that education is a lower paying career. As wonderful as my employers are, the full time work in education didn't look like it was going to support two kids in college. I was a single parent for ten years, so that was my target date, and that's why that's so relevant to my own career transition. So now I'm full time as a consultant and coach, and higher ed is a smaller part of what I do. I still contract back to higher ed and I do teach one class at Colorado State and support some students at the Sheri Miter Co Tennessee, but otherwise full time doing coaching like you.

00:03:27 - Speaker A
Great. I love that you transitioned into all of that and so much what you shared, too, just in your introduction about the pandemic and going from helping people transition out, but also helping them stay in and still be happy. And we'll get into talking a little bit about that in a little bit about because I know that was your own experience, too, about that it wasn't necessary that you had to originally change places, but it's just changing the role within the place. So there's so much value in hearing that. And it's one of the reasons why I was excited to have you on the show, because I know you do a lot more of the corporate side of strengths and higher ed, whereas I'm more helping people find their calling. And my strengths and my passion is helping them if they want to go into an entrepreneurial route and start their own business. That's my background. And some of my clients still want to just they don't want to start their own business. So that's why I thought the value you can bring to them because you know that area way more than I do. It's funny, last year I kind of went on this path of corporate training and leadership, like you said, kind of helping people keep the employees, and I realized, like, that's not where I belong. So I'll leave that for you, Jennifer.

00:04:54 - Speaker B
Really interesting discussion. I actually find that looking at options within an organization is the most common thing people don't explore when they're actually looking to make some kind of job change. So when people are looking at their options, I ask them to make lists of some potential things, and we have lots of ways of doing that. And most people do not put their current employer on the list. They usually start the conversation with me saying, Well, I know I'm getting out. What's so interesting, though, is sometimes some coaching around what the conversations could look like can lead to a transition in a role. And that was my story as well. It's the story of a lot of people who actually find a better position within a company. Not everyone. Lots of people still get out. But it is one possibility, right?

00:05:42 - Speaker A
Or even just tweaking. I just finished up a group, small group, with my Discovering Your Call in Academy, and there were five women in it, and two of them realized once they really knew and understood their strengths, they realized that they just needed to tweak some things. Like you said, tweak some things, have the hard conversations with their manager about, wait, this is what I enjoy doing. Like, one realized she loved her job. She just didn't like managing people.

00:06:11 - Speaker B
Yeah.

00:06:12 - Speaker A
So she was able to hire somebody else to manage the people so she could go back to her passion of writing and communication. And the other one had, again, conversations with her employer. She took another job offer. She ultimately does want to start her own coaching business, but she took another job offer. And then, because she was about to leave, they did the old, what can we do to make you stay? And since then and having the conversations and her now knowing, like, this is what I'm good at, this is what I enjoy, this is why I don't like doing this. She's able to stay where she was and is much, much happier, given her space now to have time to eventually still create her side business, but now she can take a slower pace at it. So it is so valuable.

00:07:07 - Speaker B
That's exactly what happened to me when I was working at a university, and I loved the work I was doing with students, and I was a career coach, but actually was wanting to start my business, thinking about paying for college and having a more flexible schedule someday. And when I talked with my employer about that, they actually said, we'd rather have you part time than no time. What can we do? And so we had a conversation about how I could actually build my business while I was still working at the university. And so it's just been an incredibly supportive environment that I didn't need to leave in order to pursue that. And I actually stayed part time for four years while I was in transition. So that's a story that probably a lot of companies could realize. They could keep people a lot longer if they could support them in their goals instead of kind of ignoring them.

00:08:05 - Speaker A
Right. So let's actually go back to your story, too, and start from where you got exposed to strengths and how that seemed like from our conversation. That was kind of the beginning of this new phase and share with the listeners what that looked like in that experience.

00:08:27 - Speaker B
Sure. Yeah. Thank you. So I was working at a university and was just transitioning well before I transitioned because actually strengths was an important part of that transition, so I don't want to leave that out. So I was on a workplace team that had strengths training, and so we took the Clifton Strengths assessment. It used to be called Strengths Binder, so either word, people might know it either way. So they took the assessment, and I took it as well, and I got my top five strengths, and I literally felt like my heart sank because I thought, oh, my gosh, they just highlighted my top five weaknesses. And the coach who I was working with, a lovely woman named Melissa Luna, who is such a good encouragement to me early on. She said to me, wait, these are your strengths, not your weaknesses. And I don't think that's what I've been told. I mean, I think I've been told, like, I talk too much, I'm too focused on people. I need to be more focused on tasks. I need to be more organized and not find so many connections between ideas and people. And I'm always introducing people to each other. Why don't I just stay in my lane, right? I have too many ideas. Why don't I just I think any conversation that starts with why don't you? Just is probably kind of a red flag. So I saw them as my weaknesses, but she taught me through coaching that these were my strengths. And she asked me, what would it be like if you stepped into your communication? What would it be like if you worked on longer relationships? What would it be like if connections were really what you were about? And so she actually taught me LinkedIn. She got me using strengths. She brought me to training on strengths, and she invited me to join the career services team. I was on the academic advising team. So what's really interesting about that is our associate dean was also in the room when we did that training, and he saw what she saw, which was my connectedness and my relator. Even though I have woo, so I can certainly speak and present. But my relator wanted longer relationships with people, and I was in an advising role that was very transactional. Short relationships with people. Career services was longer, so they invited me to join and actually create help create the career management center at Colorado State. And so I got to join that team and be part of that, which I did then for another ten years.

00:11:02 - Speaker A
I love that. And what are your top five? Jennifer?

00:11:06 - Speaker B
Yeah. Communication, connectedness, maximizer, woo, and relator.

00:11:13 - Speaker A
Oh, wow. So you have woo and relator. So for anybody listening that may not be familiar with Clifton strengths, can you give the brief synopsis for each of those, just so it kind of makes sense? Because as we speak our foreign language of strengths, somebody else may not like, what are they talking about?

00:11:34 - Speaker B
Yes. So communication is what comes naturally to me. I was the MC of the kindergarten play. I answer questions with stories. You're going to hear me do that a lot. If you ask me what time it is, I'll explain how clocks are built and why they're built that way. So I am a natural storyteller. I put my thoughts into words easily. It's easier for me to just respond than it is to plan what I'm going to respond. So that's kind of how communication shows up for me. Connectedness is really about meaning and purpose and the way ideas and people connect to each other. So something like LinkedIn is just magic to me that we can stay in touch. And I think when you put that with some of the other strengths, it really means a lot to me. So connectedness is kind of everything happening for a reason, finding meaning and purpose in my work. And then, like I said, where it connects and how it connects. Maximizer is about taking things from good to great. Maximizer is the reason why when I go to the grocery store for eggs, I come home with, like, eggs, milk, cheese, a whole recipe, and three more dinners because it's more efficient to do that. I'm always going to maximize. I'm driving across the country to take my daughter to college this fall, and I'm like, okay, what are all the stops? And how can we maximize? Like, seeing the museums on the way? And which friends can we visit? So maximizer is a quality that kind of takes everything from good to great and definitely sees strengths in people and wants to make the most of them. How can we be even better with those? Woo is that quick connection, like, I'm going to find something that we have in common right away. We've already connected, that we have grown kids, and that's something we have in common. We're both strength coaches. So Wu is that ability to win others over and find some commonality, make a quick friend. It helps me if I'm presenting to a big group as well, but relator is almost people think of it as the opposite, but relator is small groups or one on one relationships. So for me, if I'm in a big group, I can speak to 100 people, but at the end, I really hope one or two people will go have coffee with me. And that's what I really need, the combination of the long relationship, the longer conversation with being in a room of strangers. So neither one of them scare me, but I kind of need both.

00:13:56 - Speaker A
I love the way the Wu and the relator work together. I'm higher. Relator is in my time. I think it's six or seven for me, and Wu is like, quite a bit down. Don't make me go to a networking event, but let's go have coffee. Yes, exactly. That's the cool thing with the strengths, is even just hearing how you define them, the intertwining of them, because they don't stand alone, for sure. So what did it feel like to you when you were working in that other position where you thought your strengths were your weaknesses? What did it feel like going to work every day doing that?

00:14:45 - Speaker B
Yeah, it's interesting because I would often get reprimanded at the time, real early from the manager that I had at the time, for talking to people too long, you need to get off the phone, you need to get to the next phone call. And that happened at a previous job, too, where I was in a more transactional role, serving people in a registration office. So you talk to people too long, you need to just get it done. If you're talking to them about their degree requirements, just check them off and get off the phone. And I wanted to know, what are you going to do with your degree and what are your goals and what are your bigger goals and how are you going to get there? And so it felt really frustrating. Ideation is in my top ten, and so I've got an idea, I've got an idea, and of course, communication. I'm going to tell you about it. So I can remember one manager I had earlier in my higher ed career. I would go to her with ideas and say, I thought about this other way to do it. And she said, I don't need you to bring ideas to me. I need you to answer the calls, and I will figure out the ideas, and I just need you to answer the calls. And I just felt crushed. I mean, I just thought, I've been doing this for, like, 15 years at the time, and I have real ideas. I have a master's degree in curriculum and instruction, and I focused on college student retention. I know some things, and I just was so frustrated that my ideas weren't valued. And I have strategic in my top ten, so, like, where are we now? Where are we going? What are the ways we can get there? I mean, it was all so obvious to me, and I just felt like I was kind of shut down. Like, go back to your box, stay in your lane. And so I think for a lot of the job seekers that we work with, too, and people thinking about transition, you come to a point where you just don't feel like yourself. And I left every day just feeling like I just couldn't be myself at work. What ended up happening was once we were all exposed to the strengths, we actually our team, we reorganized ourselves, we actually looked at each other's strengths, and we actually decided that students that were in crisis were going to come to me because I would have a longer conversation with them. Somebody else was amazing at the paperwork, high discipline, high focus, got all the reports out the door much faster than I could, and we reorganized ourselves. So I think it was our way of trying to make our workplace better. But, boy, I was so appreciative when an opportunity to do a different role.

00:17:26 - Speaker A
Came my way, and I applaud the manager or supervisor, whoever it was, that allowed that freedom at that strengths workshop to be able to move the players around to make the team efficient.

00:17:43 - Speaker B
It's really incredible. And the team that I ended up getting moved on to was a team that was forming. It was it was a new we were creating a career management center. So they had a couple staff that were working in career roles, but we didn't have any kind of center. And so being invited to join that team in its formation stages for someone with ideation and strategic and the relationship, right. So excited. I mean, I was looking into software and what are all the ways that we can make things more efficient and better and maximize it. And I got to work with an amazing team of people to create the Career Management Center. Just amazing people who are mentors to me to this day. So I feel bad like not saying names. Sue Shell and Sean UTech joined Melissa and I. They were just people that were so amazing. And John Hawksmeyer, anyway, he was the associate dean who said, yeah, I'm going to move your job. I'm a relator, so I just love to honor people. John Weiss, who gave me a chance, all these amazing people. So I think we all have people in our lives that see us clearly and honor what we do. I will say not everybody realizes who those people are. So when we're supporting people in transition, I think that's don't you think that's a lot of the work we have to do is who sees you for who you are? Where can you get that feedback?

00:19:15 - Speaker A
And I feel like and it kind of starts back with the person knowing themselves first. Because so many people are going through life like you were thinking what their actual strengths and talents are, are weaknesses. Because somebody along their life, whether it be a teacher, a parent, boss, whoever, somebody told them those were weaknesses, right. And they smushed them down like you're one boss that didn't let you ideate. And if that's what we think of ourselves, then it takes just us realizing who. That's why I just am so passionate about strengths are as I know you are, that it's truly life changing for people.

00:19:59 - Speaker B
It is truly life changing. People say that all the time. I'm sure you have that experience too, Sheri. I mean, it's a whole different way of looking at themselves and looking at the world. And so there's a quote from Don Clifton, who is the founder of this strengths movement, who says, what would happen if we thought about what was right with people instead of fixating on what's wrong with them? And so if you actually embrace that and say, okay, this thing that comes so naturally to me, how would I use it to my benefit? What if I was invited into a meeting to brainstorm instead of being told not to? What if somebody asked me to speak? Which is exactly what happened when I moved into Career Services. They said, why don't you give the presentations? Why don't you teach the classes? Why don't you speak to this group and that group? And once I was kind of given permission and opportunity to step into my strengths, it absolutely made more sense than doing transactional paperwork type things which just always felt like a struggle.

00:21:06 - Speaker A
And actually, I'd love to hear a little bit about that because I feel like so many of the people listening to this show are in that place of the struggle, and they don't even really know why. They don't know why they even want to make a career change. They just know whatever they're doing right now doesn't fit. It doesn't feel right. And I think you are the perfect person to really speak to that. That this is what it felt like when I wasn't using my strengths, and this is what it felt like when I was what was your energy like? Because you and I know when you're working in your talents, the energy goes up. So what did that feel like on the day to day when you think back to going to work pre strengths, going to work after strengths?

00:21:54 - Speaker B
Yeah, it was draining. It was limiting. It felt kind of almost disrespectful, because I would try to step out in courage and like, hey, here's me with an idea or a solution for someone I just talked to for 45 minutes and then would get criticized for talking to them too long and having ideas. So I think that it's really disengaging. That's a word that Gallup uses quite a lot in their literature. Disengagement sets in, and then if you don't do something about it, active disengagement sets in. So this is, I think, what I've been talking to teams and managers in workplaces about is that if you don't pay attention to the strengths of your employees, that disengagement will set in. And once it sets in, you're on your way out. I mean, you're job searching at lunch and paying people like Sheri and I money to get you out of your career, right? So I think that that's a really important thing. Now, realistically, what I actually do when someone comes to me that way, and maybe it's similar for you, is I have them take the Clifton strengths assessment. We look at the whole 34 and we talk through what actually are these strengths at the top of this profile. And then I ask the question, are you using those in your current job? And where are you using them? And then look at what else is at the top. What are you not using that you desperately wish you could? That is so diagnostic to understand. I'm thinking about a medical professional that I was working with who was really frustrated by kind of the day to day decisions that they needed to make working directly with patients. And this person tested as high in a lot of the strategic thinking talents, which are like input, gathering information, learner loving, to learn analytical, really analyzing causes and effects. And none of that was being used in the day to day. And so it was so helpful for us to see that this person figured out that they were going to go into medical research. We figured that out during our work together. They didn't have to change their whole industry. They just needed to change their role. So that's literally a lens you can look through to diagnose what's happening. Why am I disengaged? The one other thing I'll say about that is I think if you look at the bottom of the profile of the 34, if your job is requiring to use your strengths number 3132-3334, can you do it? Yeah, probably. Like, I could do discipline and achieve her and focus and some of these things that were very structured. But it was always hard, it was always draining. And I was exhausted when I needed to do a lot of paperwork type processes. And so that can be really diagnostic too, to look at the top of the strengths profile and the bottom and then compare it to your work.

00:24:57 - Speaker A
Such great advice. Such great advice. And I'm thinking back, like, my own story. It was interesting because I thought I was happy where I was. I was at the top of my game in direct sales and had just achieved some monumental, like, I made it kind of goals. And it was when I found out my strengths, I have maximizer, like, you in my top five and developer lower. And so Jennifer had already shared maximizer. We like to take something that's already good and make it superb, make it better. And developers like to start from scratch and just build it from there. And I realized when it was that eye opening, like, you that eye opening moment, that like, oh my gosh, this is why I'm exhausted all the time, because I'm spending my days developing people versus being able to stay maximizing people. That was like this huge AHA moment for me that began that searching for something else yeah. That I can't stay here forever.

00:26:11 - Speaker B
How did you recognize that?

00:26:17 - Speaker A
It was instant. It really was just like because once I was out of strengths workshop and I had taken the strengths, but I didn't really understand what they meant like a lot of people do, I took it oh, yeah, that sounds about right. And put it away. And then I went to a workshop where it was a smaller intimate workshop where we were explained everything. And when he started explaining the difference between maximizer and developer, it was like this instant. Like, oh my gosh, the angel saying the whole thing. I was just like, oh, that's it, that's why. And it just like I said, it was the beginning. But I always point that out because I was at the top of my game. And even then, even though I was successful at it, I knew I couldn't stay there forever or I would just burn myself out. Like I could see the future. I have high futuristic, too, so maybe that's it. But I could start to see that if I stay here, unless I change drastically. And I just wasn't willing to do that the way I was working that yeah, I was going to get burnt out and burnt out quickly.

00:27:27 - Speaker B
Burnout is huge. I'm sure a lot of your folks that you work with are in burnout when they come to you to find calling. So this stuff is really related. But burnout happens when you're having to operate from things that are naturally low for you and when you don't get to operate from things that are naturally high.

00:27:49 - Speaker A
Right. Yes. That's what burns us out. That's that exhaustion when you come home and veg on the couch. Right. You have nothing left to give, anything else in your life.

00:28:02 - Speaker B
Yeah. And I think one other place that just occurred to me that I do see burnout is sometimes when you are working in your strengths, but you don't ever get to rest. Right. So I think sometimes when we do the diagnostic, it's not that they're not like I think about somebody who has high achiever where they're like doing. But I spoke recently with one of my clients who had high achiever, and she was like, yeah, I'm getting to achieve greater and greater things every day. It's just that everybody's giving me everything and my workload is too great. This is a person who had achiever and responsibility. And so what happened was they were taking responsibility is taking psychological ownership for what you say you will do. Achiever is like hard work, stamina task, task tasks. Check it off, check it off, check it off. Do the next thing. So the combination of those things was making her burned out because there weren't good boundaries around it. So some of the coaching that we did in that situation was, what could the boundaries be around achiever responsibility that maybe they're not. So maybe this person didn't need to get a whole different job, but they needed to have some boundaries within the job that they were in. So it's a really fascinating lens to look through.

00:29:19 - Speaker A
Yes, I love that. And I love that how you're bringing in so many ways to look at that. Like you said, sometimes it's just we just need boundaries. Get your boundaries, tweak a little things, have the conversations with the manager, and you'll be happy, you'll be successful. Sometimes it's a different role, same company, different role. And then sometimes you do need to transition out of there.

00:29:44 - Speaker B
Yeah, I'm thinking about a couple of different examples of those. One person who was really highly connected to their work and just a really mission oriented kind of job, doing some training, and moved her family across the country to take a job in a different place because the company wasn't working. And then when she got there, it also wasn't working in the next company. And what we realized is that the industry was not very friendly to her ideas. The industry was not open to the kinds of ideas. That she was sharing, and there really wasn't anything wrong with her role. She was well prepared. She was highly gifted at it. She was very well qualified and achieved a lot, but the industry wasn't ready for what she was bringing. So one of the things that's really important in transition is that you solve the right problem. So she solved a company problem, but she needed to solve an industry challenge. So sometimes it's the role, sometimes it's the company, sometimes it's the industry, sometimes it's a values thing. My transition out of full time higher ed was not about not using my strengths, because higher ed career services used every bit of my strengths. And I loved, loved it. It just didn't fund college tuition for two kids. So now it can be a smaller part of what I do. But I needed to have something else that just paid differently. So sometimes it's a values thing, like pay, sometimes it's location. We're seeing a lot post pandemic. We're seeing a lot of people in the return to work movement that don't return to the office movement, don't want to necessarily return to the office. And so even if the role is a great fit, and the company was a great fit when it was remote, the company may no longer be a fit if it's in office or vice versa. People extroverts like me who missed being around, people want to be in the office, but working full time at home isn't the best fit for everyone. So it can be a lot of things. My point with that is you have to solve the right problem if you want to get to a better place.

00:31:54 - Speaker A
Yes, absolutely. I love that you said that, because I think that's why I was just talking to somebody a couple of days ago, and I don't remember who or why we were talking about it, but just how you see people. And maybe it's somebody listening today that they hop from career to career to career to career trying to find that perfect fit. But so many times we're asked, like, what skills do you have? And they look at the skill set they bring, but you may not even like the skill. Because we can do a lot of things like you said, doesn't mean that that's within our talent themes or we enjoy those skills. So if you're just hopping to a job based on skill set, you're missing your values, your vision for your life, your talents and strengths, all these other elements that make us a whole person. And that's how you can have that career that lights you up and gives you joy no matter what you want. But I'd love to talk a little bit about how you did transition out when you realized that financially, as a single mom, the job you loved wasn't going to get your kids that higher ed education and you needed to make it. Were there other things you were looking at, too, besides the financial piece of it that made you realize, like, oh, I'd love to start my own business.

00:33:18 - Speaker B
Well, one of the things is that I was doing it on the side because I always had a second job working in education, and it was just lighting me up. So I think what I realized when I became a Gallup certified strengths coach and started doing some coaching just on the side, literally side gig was that it was just as fulfilling as my day job. And I think I didn't know that. I actually believed for a long time that the only place I could use my strengths was within an educational setting, because it felt like the only place where people were asking questions like, what's my meaning? What's my purpose? What are my goals? How am I going to get there? And yet, now that I'm a career coach and even work with teams, lots of people are asking those questions. I just didn't realize that those questions were being asked and answered outside of education. So once I realized that, I had this little glimpse of, wait a minute, there's other places that I can have this really meaningful conversation. So I think that was part of it that I just saw possibility, I didn't see before. For me, financial was a big reason, and I think it was my primary reason. And I worked for an employer that treated me wonderfully. It's the whole industry. It wasn't this employer. It wasn't a boss. It was an industry that just compensates it a certain way in student services. So I had to first recognize that that was even true. There's a book I love called Designing Your Life, and they talk in that book about gravity problems. It doesn't matter, Sheri, if you and I don't like gravity, we are both sitting in chairs right now. We are not floating to the ceiling. It doesn't matter if we wish that it was different. We're not going to float to the ceiling because we decide to. Gravity exists. And I think it took me a long time to realize that the pay structure of student services in higher education was a gravity problem. It was institutional. It was systemic. All the people who loved me in my institution also couldn't change it. It just was what it was. And that was a gravity problem. Once I recognized that it was a gravity problem, that's when I was open to considering, where else can I do these things? And that's why that little side gig was so attractive to me. Wait a minute. This thing I do on the side is actually going pretty well. What if I did it more? And so what I literally did is I went to the Gallup Conference, the Summit, and I met other people who were doing full time coaching and consulting. And that was so key and so key for all of our clients to meet other people that are doing what you want to do. And so once I did that, I met someone who mentored me and taught me how to start a business. And I worked with a lot of other coaches, asked them a lot of questions, how did they do it? And really developed a plan to kind of scale up and then scale back. On my day job, the other key piece of that was I had that hard conversation that a lot of people don't have, which is what would it be like if you all understood what I was doing and could we find a way to work it out? Like I said, four years later was when I finally went full time in my business. So as a single parent, I couldn't just quit, lose benefits. I mean, I had to know that it had legs. And that's true, I'm sure, for all the entrepreneurs that you work with, some people have the life circumstances where they can quit and just build full time. And I totally respect that. Some people's paths. It definitely was not my path and couldn't have been.

00:37:00 - Speaker A
And I love your path. So it was a four year transition?

00:37:05 - Speaker B
Yeah, probably. I did the certification, though, for Gallup Strengths while I was still at the university, even the year before that. So I think that's another thing that I think is worth saying for your listeners is if you're thinking about making a change, okay, this is Sheri, and I being maximizers again. Do everything you can within the environment you're in. So I just spoke with someone who is thinking about making a change, and I asked this person, like, they want to do more trainings and they're thinking about starting a training business. And I said, are you doing all the trainings you can where you are? Do you have all the certifications you can get that your workplace will pay for? Are you using the certifications that you have? Can you do any projects that you might later do somewhere else, but can you pilot those within the workplace you're in? You have trust, you have longevity. So a lot of times we don't fully make the most of where we are. I definitely feel like I gave a lot of my ideas and learned so much. Got certifications, got training, got experience while I was in the university setting. That has absolutely served me well working with private clients and leaders. But you have to look at where you are and what you can maximize.

00:38:22 - Speaker A
Absolutely. Great advice. Great advice. It's not taking advantage of because you're still giving to that employer, but take advantage of the opportunities they're going to offer you and use them there, but then know that you can take them with you. We never lose anything. Like, everything can come along with us. Our knowledge, I should say our knowledge comes along with us. Our experience always comes along with us. So get all of that while you can under the safety of your job.

00:38:57 - Speaker B
And not everybody gets to. I had amazing people who I worked in a career center, so they understood where my career was going and were so supportive of me. And there were compromises we needed to make. I mean, I needed to work in a time frame that worked for them. And there were days that I needed to show up on their schedule, not my schedule. And at one point I needed to change to a different office. There were compromises both ways to make things work. But I think what we had was open communication. That is a privilege that a lot of people have, but it's something that a lot of people don't have. But that's I think how you know that if you don't have support even sometimes within where you're growing within your company, sometimes managers come against and say, no, I like you in this role. I want you to be in this role. And so I'm not going to support your growth and development. That's actually where you fully understand you need a change. And so I always encourage people to have those hard conversations, tell people around you. Now, some people are afraid they'll actually get fired if they tell people that they want to grow. And honestly, it has happened. So like, oh, you don't want to be here? Well, we can find someone else who does. I mean, I think there's real things. That's why we coach and support people, right. You have to read the room. You have to understand the environment that you're in. But I do think more people can have those conversations than can't most of the time, even if the organization can't get you where you want to be, they can potentially help open doors for you that'll keep you there a little bit longer.

00:40:37 - Speaker A
All right, definitely. Yeah. Good advice. Again, such value you're bringing, Jennifer, such value. I really hope that somebody listening is taking notes and listening to this. And they may need to go back and listen again because there's so many the process, the steps, the mindset, so many things that come into play here around stepping into your calling, whether again it be where you are in a new role tweaking how you do the role or stepping outside into something totally different and you can do it your way. And that's where strengths and we won't get into necessarily talking about that today, but strengths even helps you design how if you do know, you need to step into our talents, show up there too. And are we risk takers or do we need a little bit more time and be a little bit more deliberative about the plan so it plays into how you step into that next venture in your life? For sure, yeah. Any surprises or regrets for you along the way? Or surprises and regrets that you see common for the people you work with.

00:41:56 - Speaker B
I think I was surprised how much support I had from my current employer, I will say that. And I think a lot of my clients are surprised at how much support they have. Even if the employer can't keep you, they know people in other companies and when they like know and trust you, they sometimes will refer you even out. So I think a lot of people are surprised how much support they do have. I think I was really honestly surprised that meaningful work existed outside the environment I was in for 20 years. Because I think that is something that can stop us if we are in a workplace that we enjoy. We think that we'd have to change everything in order to make a change. So a lot of times somebody will not make a change because of flexibility and not realize that other workplaces also have flexibility. So I think it surprised me how much support I had. I think it also surprised me that working from home would work so well for me. I'm an extrovert, and so when the pandemic hit and everything was suddenly at home and I wasn't going to the campus and I had a private office, I wasn't meeting people in person anymore, and I wasn't doing in person presentations, it was really hard for me. But as I learned to develop community with colleagues and friends even around the world, and to see people in person when I could, I actually now love the flexibility and I love the convenience. And I love that I can serve clients around the world. I mean, it's just incredible. And I have colleagues in Ireland and Africa and clients in the UK and the United States. I mean, it's just amazing that it's even possible. So again, I didn't know how amazing opportunities would be until I stepped into them. And that's true, I think, for a lot of people. That book designing your life. I love. They also talk about prototyping, something that you don't realize if it's going to work for you until you prototype it. So I think I was doing just a little bit of zoom and then realized, actually, this is really convenient, this works really well, I can serve people better. I even started meeting some of my students that way because it was more convenient for them than coming to my office. So I think, yeah, that's another thing I was surprised about.

00:44:33 - Speaker A
I love that and just seeing that what you're saying about we don't know, we don't know what we don't know. We step into it and you start searching for it and it's so interesting. I always find that the minute I start just being open minded to something, no matter what it is, it's so funny how things start to show up in our life. Whether it be a book we need to read or a podcast to listen to, or something that pops up in our lives or somebody, we have another conversation about it, and again, you step into that, and then something else opens up, and then you step in. And each step we take, we start to see more and more and more until all of a sudden, we're in this whole nother world that we didn't even know existed.

00:45:20 - Speaker B
That's exactly right. And I think it is, like you said, one step at a time. And I think what that reminded me of is just kind of getting clear on the parts of the worlds I was in that I really wanted to focus on. So as a Gallup certified strengths coach, there's so much in that world, there's so much you can do with strengths, but really how it affected people's careers, inside companies and outside companies. And that's true for leaders and for the people that are on the staff of leaders. How strengths affected careers was the very unique thing I wanted to do. And I think in the beginning, I was like, oh, all strength things and all career things and all personal development things and all meaningful life things, and actually that's way too much and way too big. So it was like when I started getting clear on Gosh, what I'm so curious about is how strengths impact career decisions and how career decisions can be based on strengths, whether that's in a company or personally. That was when magic started to happen. So one of those super fun things. In 2022, my friend and colleague Joe Self is writing this whole series of books called Practical Strengths. The first one was on parenting, and I gave her a quote for the book, so that was super fun. And the second one was on careers. And because I had given her a quote for the parenting book, she knew me. And because I was clear on specifically what I was interested in, she was like, Well, Gosh, my second book is about how strengths practically impact careers. Do you want to partner with me on it? And because of that getting clear, I got to help her as she was writing the book, so I got to be the expert contributor on that, which is such a fun thing. And now her next book is on communication. I got to write the foreword for that book. I never in a million years would have imagined that I'd be connected to this author and supporting the development of her books and get to put some of my ideas in that book. And it's also encouraged me now to write a book. So I hope in the next year that I'll be writing my own book about creating a strength based career. So hold me accountable, Sheri. I'll be hopefully doing that in the next year because I didn't know that it was possible. But partnering with her on her books showed me how it was possible. So I think that's so true. For so many of our career decisions and our career pivots is that we see something that someone's doing, we talk to them, we try it, pilot it, prototype it just a little bit. It feels good. You do a little bit more, and then suddenly you realize you can do much more than you ever realized.

00:48:14 - Speaker A
I love that. And it's funny because what you just shared on this side is a perfect example, too, because we connected, because I think you may have been a guest on one of the Gallups podcasts, and you were talking about Joe's book. And so I went on and I ordered I actually wanted to order the career one and ended up ordering the communication one. So I saw your Ford, and I think that was where and then I connected with you on LinkedIn. And in the process, Joe and I have connected. Hope to have her on the podcast in the future as well. So it's funny how, again, that step opened this door like, oh, now I know more about Jennifer, and now we have this connection. And it's just funny how little again, those little steps all lead to these big things, and I would definitely hold you accountable, and you can do the same because I have a vision now to take my Discovering Your Calling program and turn that into a book in the future.

00:49:23 - Speaker B
You got it. You and me next year, right?

00:49:25 - Speaker A
Yes.

00:49:26 - Speaker B
My kids are off to college in the fall, so let's do it.

00:49:29 - Speaker A
And that's perfect because we're moving out of our apartment and onto a boat on August 1. So I have no like the book has to be tabled until then. Lots of time, hopefully, to do write a book.

00:49:43 - Speaker B
Wow, that's amazing. Living on a boat, talk about meaningful life choices.

00:49:47 - Speaker A
Yes. So, Jennifer, any other things, any other advice you would give anybody that's listening, that is in that no matter what point they're at of that just feeling that angst or feeling that like, something's got to change, whether they're way out of alignment with what they're doing or just feeling a little off. Any last minute advice for them as we finish up our conversation here?

00:50:18 - Speaker B
I think I would encourage anyone to take the Clifton strengths assessment and ask yourself the question, what strengths am I using? What strengths am I not using? And then if you get the full 34, what's at the bottom that I'm being called on to use all the time, which is really draining for me. So I think looking through that lens based on hearing this conversation, that gives people some encouragement. But I also think, like, partnering with someone who can ask you the questions, like doing your Discover Your Calling program or working with a strength based career coach like me and so many of my colleagues. Or Joe has some training, and universities have training, and companies have leadership programs, and lots of companies have mentoring programs. I mean, there's so many opportunities for you to not go this alone. So I think that's the biggest thing is usually when people reach out to me, they're like, yeah, I've been suffering with this question for three years, and I thought, oh, my gosh, why we were all right here. And just the value of partnering, whether it's with a paid coach or with just a mentor or a friend, but say, help me look through this lens. What are you seeing? And then ask yourself what kind of change you need to solve it. Do you need to change your role? Do you need to change your company? Do you just need to go to a different department and get out from under the boss or get into a different team? Or is it like the example I gave the whole industry? Or is it a different aspect of your field? And for some people, it is something completely different. And certainly I've worked with MBAs for 15 years. There's a lot of people that are like, yeah, I used to be a kindergarten teacher, and now I want to become an accountant, and you go back to school and get a Master's in accountancy, and that's how you get there. So it just depends on the kind of change you want to make and how much ramp up you want. There's changes you can make that are short and fast and there's changes you can make that are long term, and it's a longer bridge that you need to build, but both are possible.

00:52:29 - Speaker A
Great advice. Great advice. Because I could start a whole nother conversation again, but we will stop this here, and we could always do this again and have go in other directions because so much more it's like, oh, I want to go there. But no, we want to keep this in a reasonable time frame. Jennifer I knew this would be a great conversation. Like I said, anytime I have an opportunity to bring another view of strengths to the listeners, that just lights me up because there is just so much power, and I just want people to really get that, like, how much power there is in this assessment. And I'm an assessment junkie, so like, no other assessment out there. This one truly it tells you who you are. You're one in 33 million versus this is where you fit into this box. This is how you fit into that box. This is how you're alike. No, this is how you're different and how you can be the best you to bring to the world. So I appreciate everything you're doing to help others figure out how they just need to pivot a little bit, or I would say jump ship and go on a whole nother boat. Is it adjust the sales or just pivot, get a new boat. And everything you do out there to support people, and I can tell your passion and that's how you know when somebody truly is in their calling, just your excitement and that you love what you do. So thank you for being a guest on the show today.

00:54:10 - Speaker B
Thank you so much. It's been such an honor.

00:54:18 - Speaker A
So, Jennifer, if people want to connect with you or follow you, where is the best place to find out more about you and or connect with you?

00:54:27 - Speaker B
Yeah, two places I'm really active in LinkedIn. So find me on LinkedIn under Jennifer Doyle. Vampil. One thing people should know if someone's a creator, like my profile is creator profile because I host a lot of content. When you see the profile, it'll say follow. You can actually hit more and then connect. So that's just a little LinkedIn tip for you today, but feel free to follow or connect with me there and then. My website is communicatingstrengths.com. I was pretty excited that that website was available. I was surprised that it was, but I got the domain and so communicatingstrengths.com. There's a book, a free call if you want to ask me question or connect in any way. And I do have a mailing list people can sign up for. So thanks for the opportunity to share that. I'm so excited that we connected. Our work dovetails so much together, so there's a lot of people to help in the world. It's going to take all of us.

00:55:25 - Speaker A
Absolutely, yes. Me too. I'm so glad we connected as well. And I see a lot of ways we can support each other and keep each other accountable for those books and continue this journey to help more people know their natural talents and strengths so they can find their true calling and passion in the world. Thank you again, Jennifer, for just taking time today to be on the show.

00:55:52 - Speaker B
Thanks so much, Sheri.